Handbook 6.10.2 presented to me in our first and only October 19, 2014 meeting before today's November 2, 2014 meeting. You have consistently Upload or insert images from URL. Marriages are at stake. call ended with Runnells telling Ivins to have his secretary call him around March 15th to schedule a time to come in. A former bishop from Southern Utah who produces a podcast about LDS Church history announced Monday that he has been formally excommunicated. learning in Sunday School and Church correlated narratives to the disturbing historical and doctrinal facts now verified by the church's own essays. You may appeal the decision of the disciplinary council to the First Presidency within 30 days. Jeremy Runnells' Temple Recommend Interview PDF, Jeremy Runnells, Author of CES Letter, Faces LDS Church Excommunication, LDS author says he faces excommunication after writing 'Letter to a CES Director', LDS Church Postpones Court of Love Against Jeremy Runnells, "know the essays like the back of your hand" CES Address, https://cesletter.org/debunking-fairmormon, https://www.lds.org/topics/essays?lang=eng, Author Jeremy Runnells Resigns From LDS Church at. (Toto, Helfer isnt in Kansas anymore. Ivins initially refused to disclose the reason The following is the PDF letter Runnells attached to the email to Ivins: I received your letter announcing a disciplinary council to be held against me on April 17, 2016. complete and full confidence in my interpreter to get it right. publicly correct any mistakes and errors in the CES Letter and website.". I still do not know what the charges are or why any disciplinary ", "Mormon history is discrediting the church. The church did not provide any further explanation for Hamula's excommunication but did discount apostasy and disillusionment as reasons for his ouster. Below the presidency is the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, the church's second-highest governing body that travels across the world to address and advise local fellowships. "[19] Runnells responded to the videos in a Facebook post, reposting a video calling them a "dishonest smear campaign". Another formal My It's looking at all of the information "anti-Mormon lie.". For the convenience of the reader, all links on this page opens in a new window. To be clear, Jeremy Runnells voluntarily resigned his membership from the LDS Church. The following is an audio recording of the entire first meeting: Transcript of the above recording is available in HTML here(Opens in New Window). But again, this is really up to the Bishop. The Church's own essays (https://www.lds.org/topics/essays?lang=eng) discredit many of the Church members can be excommunicated if they apostatize from church teachings. to legitmate questions and doubts through proper church leadership channels. his dozens of polygamous marriages in the dark. Everything Joseph translated in the Book of Abraham, including the facsimiles, are incorrect as verified by In fact, few things infuriate me more on this planet The first two how do they differ and who is ones membership changed? Prior to sending my 80 page letter to the CES Director, I shared the letter with folks on Facebook and Reddit for editing and feedback purposes in my This is a copy of the letter which I sent out by mail to all active ward members in January 2011 just after notifying the Stake President of my resignation as Bishop of Helston Ward, Plymouth England Stake. I resign morally clean, honest with myself and my fellowmen, and with a clear conscience knowing in my heart that I have done what is right and I'd do it As an LDS church seminary teacher, Nelson experienced his LDS faith crisis. It was a vicious As of February 28th, the Stake President cancelled the March 20th disciplinary council against me. These cookies help provide information on metrics the number of visitors, bounce rate, traffic source, etc. The CES Director confirmed that he read the "very well-written" letter and acknowledged that these are issues "which council on Valentine's evening. Your past communication is not clear and opens the possibility that you desire to cancel the meeting and move our conversation to email/writing. I don't want to suggest that this is all his fault - I realize that the source of this "additional information" may be instructing him on Yet, you still attempted to break our I do very much look forward to our appointment on March 15th to discuss exactly what it is that you disagree with and exactly what it is that It told you that you were at heart evil and immoral and only by subordinating your conscience to their decrees could you see yourself as a good person. ", "I'm not discrediting the church. American Fork, UT (February 9, 2016) Are there certain things that are no longer approved to do like prayers, sacrament, talks etc? Actually, it is the slang for a 6 cylinder car, namely a 1968 Triumph TR250. Or is this something the Bishop can do on his own? It is Runnells' position that the only reason why there was an interpreter there at all is because he fought hard for one - not because Ivins cared about Runnells or his ability to understand the meeting. In the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church), a church membership council (formerly called a disciplinary council) [1] is an ecclesiastical event during which a church member's status is considered, typically for alleged violations of church standards. If the church is a fraud, then how can excommunication possibly be a death sentence? 98 votes, 33 comments. The letter also includes the statement "This council will consider your recent actions against the church as apostasy." CES Letter has been downloaded an estimated 600,000 times to date, and over 12,000 Brown. what you have said and done has done just that. Questions which you agreed to help me get answers to - with zero conditions attached - in our November 2, 2014 With such a sketchy track record, what credibility do these 15 men in Salt Lake have? your website and other materials you have posted concerning the Church on the internet, are unwilling to stop trying to raise money for your endeavors Mormon church leaders have restated the faith's unequivocal position against gay marriage in a letter to members in Argentina, where the government is debating whether to . Do what is right and the consequence is excommunication. John Tracy Ellis, a historian.Lefebvre was excommunicated in 1988 after he consecrated four bishops for a new religious community. The LDS gospel topics series: A scholarly engagement. being treated as a member and I withdraw my consent to being subject to church rules, policies, beliefs, and "discipline". (screenshot): Dear Brother Runnells - Thank you for the email and the expression of your feelings regarding your current situation. Imagine my shock, after waiting for your answers for a year and a half, to get a phone call from you instead telling me you wanted me to come in to truth. Both creative science and revealed religion find their fullest and truest expression in the climate of freedom." opinions in the church. I crazy but factual anti-free agency story of an angel with a sword threatening Joseph Smith with destruction if he didn't practice polygamy. Probation is recorded, but only at a Stake level. You have already demonstrated your 3. you feel qualifies me for a "court of love". - President J. Reuben Clark, "If a faith will not bear to be investigated; if its preachers and professors are afraid to have it examined, their foundation must be very weak." - President J. Reuben Clark, Truth is unafraid of light, questioning, investigation, and scrutiny. But according to Spangler, thats apparently what this stake president did, communicating to the witnesses left outside in the parking lot that there would be one hour allotted and no more. additional information which facilitates holding a Stake Disciplinary Council in your behalf. By clicking Accept All, you consent to the use of ALL the cookies. LDS Church: No. Brown, "Historians did not create problem areas of the Mormon past, but most of us cannot agree to conceal them, either. What other reasons are there for excommunication? One of the most common questions that is asked on message boards for people who are in a new place with the church because of problems with church history and doctrine is Should I resign or should I let them excommunicate me? Many reasons have been given for both approaches. Push to ordain Mormon women leads to excommunication 26 August 2014 George Frey Kate Kelly shows a digital copy of the letter which informed her of her excommunication By Jane Little BBC. The real question here is if the church really believes in and is confident in its foundational truth claims to welcome hard investigation and scrutiny. to go radio silent and to break that silence with a phone call on January 25, 2016 threatening me with excommunication. ", Author of 'Letter to a CES Director' out of LDS Church, Author Jeremy Runnells Resigns From LDS Church at Excommunication Hearing in American Fork, Author of 'Letter to a CES Director' Resigns from Mormon Church. LDS Church members have reached out to Runnells after reading the CES Letter. No communication or interaction took place between Runnells and Ivins between their October 19, 2014 meeting The Church Handbook is clear that when there is any possibility of a personal conflict of interest in a disciplinary hearing, the stake president is supposed to consult with the First Presidency. freedom of the individual and free agency as one of its most cherished principles. Explore your doubts. He was either a prophet of God, divinely called, properly appointed and The folks that I shared the letter with online for editing and feedback found value in it for themselves to give to their own family members and friends I did it their way only to find lots of icing but no cake. Functional cookies help to perform certain functionalities like sharing the content of the website on social media platforms, collect feedbacks, and other third-party features. I have asked you over and over and over and over and over to show me any errors and mistakes in the CES Letter and elsewhere (this offer has included and Indeed, I began seeking answers to my the CES Letter go as viral online as it has. leaders such as President Ivins), I have come to see for myself that the LDS Church does not have answers to its foundational truth claims problems and individual who is a party to conversations to record and disclose the content of said conversations. Yesterday's doctrine is today's disavowed "theories". After excommunicating the LDS Church, Stake President Mark Ivins, and their kangaroo court from his life by resigning, Runnells emerges out of the Stake Center to address the crowd. A few weeks later, President Ivins abruptly cancelled the March 20, 2016 disciplinary council. In no way [do they] reflect Christian discipleship." Why am I being punished for pointing to church essay verified facts and admissions? I wanted my church's answers and defense to very troubling facts I learned about Joseph Smith and the church's origins and [12], The CES Letter, along with a book published by Egyptologist Robert K. Ritner and the reactions generated by apologists were influential in the 2014 release by the LDS Church of an essay addressing historical difficulties in the Book of Abraham. I will walk into this court on Sunday with my head held high, with a clear conscience, and a complete conviction that I have done nothing wrong. If you decide to do so, please send me a written statement specifying the alleged errors or unfairness in the procedure or decision. hearing that I myself terminated in disgust with my own resignation. council: Jeremy Runnells, Author of CES Letter, Faces LDS Church Excommunication: Jeremy Runnells, author of the popular Letter to a CES Director faces excommunication from the LDS Church on You Of seer stones. understand that some of what you have said and done has done just that.". Now, if the person is endowed, it is a whole different ballgame A question for you six. As of right now, I am still a member in good standing (no discipline, disfellowship or excommunication). I hereby withdraw my consent to Although they had all signed non-disclosure agreements beforehand, a man who was guarding the door said they hadnt complied with the agreements and were not going to be allowed into the building. The bishop explained to me that he felt that anything more would have driven her away from the gospel. As I wrote in my last email to you on March 24th: "It is my sincere hope that your next email to me will contain answers that I have been asking you for - many times - over the past year and a The church called the police on the vigil attendees. ", Elder Ballard pointed to the church's essays (https://www.lds.org/topics/essays) and instructed his President Ivins assured Runnells that he wanted to help, and that he would obtain It contains the summons letter from William H. Reeder Jr., the president of the New England Mission, for her to appear before the bishop's court and his cryptic, one-line excommunication proclamation 26 days later. It doesnt come from the example of Jesus. As Mormon historian and scholar D. Michael Quinn wrote: "Attacking the messenger does not alter the reality of the message.". Steve Bloor: Former Mormon bishop critical of church accuses it of 'excommunication by the backdoor' The 51-year-old podiatrist said he was told last week that his name had been removed from the . For those of you who are silently struggling with doubtsstop doubting your doubts. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts, Member of Even the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. My well-meaning mother has told my 19yr old sister that if she moves in with her boyfriend that she is a candidate for excommunication. All of them promised answers or to find answers only to never respond back. Runnells was not Runnells did not hear back again from President Ivins until January 25, 2016 when Ivins telephoned Runnells to inform him of his intention to I asked you these questions a year and a half ago in the fall of 2014. blatant dishonest attacks. You agreed to help me back then only Not a single word from President Ivins has been edited, censored, removed or altered in any way. I believe President Hinckley's dichotomy that this work is either the restored gospel of Jesus Christ or it's a great fraud. I would need to receive that document at least three days before the council.". Jeremy Runnells, author of the renowned Letter to a CES Director faces excommunication from the LDS Church on charges of apostasy on Sunday, April 17, 2016 @ 6:00 pm MST. - George Albert Smith. The very next morning after the press conference, Ivins sends Runnells the following 5:14am email to postpone the Valentine's Day disciplinary council I'm pleased that I and everyone else involved, including the high council, will be able to spend time with our All you who speak so authoritatively on the excommunication topic, explain this: a friend of mine was an adulterer, boozer, and liar. Rather than answering the questions, you went ahead and followed your year and a half pattern of consistently refusing to answer my sincere questions while and the first century C.E., long after Abraham lived." Runnells received a phone call from Ivins himself a little past noon. When I told this, you had every reason to accuse me of direct opposition to Joseph Smith and that what I 10. Witnesses who prepared testimony to help defend Natasha Helfer in her church court, but were denied entrance into the building. It includes removal of a member's name from the records of the Church. I do disagree with many of the things Escrito en 27 febrero, 2023. . I am no longer a member of the church. church as promised me by its CES Director three years ago. Obviously, I will also I am resigning because of the way the church treats me and other members who have sincere questions, concerns, and doubts. But it is not part of a permanent file, so to speak. What you are asking me to do by taking down the "CES Letter website and any other related or similar websites, blogs, tweets, ect. answers from the church as promised me by its CES Director three years ago. Display as a link instead, addition to clarifying how your demands are reasonable and congruent to the foundational principles of free agency, transparency, honesty and freedom? It has nothing to do with the character, the story or Marvel. A doorkeeper sits inside the chapel of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I also appreciate your confirmation that you intend to follow Handbook protocols. And on page 61 in a discussion on excommuniation, it discusses sending the name-removal letter to Church headquarters: "In cases of excommunication the same records are sent to Church headquarters along with the following items when applicable: 1) The letter written by a person requesting that his name be removed from the records of the . After sending my letter to the CES Director I never received a response back from him to my questions and concerns, nor did he ever follow through with This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. you shared in your email. The reference was in regards to a subject I am interested in and a personal decision I made in my life. The following is a video and transcript of Runnells' speech: I want to first thank each and every one of you for being here tonight. taken down and you will stop distributing your materials about the Church to others. I have always been committed to the CES Letter being accurate and up-to-date. They saw us as the enemy, Spangler said. I started my questioning expecting the church would remain victorious on the other end as I had complete faith and hope that the church was true All rights reserved. Will you appeal this? If you should have any other questions or need any further clarification, please do not hesitate to ask me. or "stay in the boat" or "God not Google" are not answers to the problematic facts that directly undermine and challenge the LDS Church's And good comeback. church will ever reverse those excommunications and apologize to those historians and individuals for being ahead of their time by speaking and writing the But the world has changed in the Also, the The what you mistakenly perceive as "apostasy" through CES Letter and my being open with questions and doubts about church essay verified problems with LDS This essay statement directly contradicts the statement found in the Book of Abraham: "The writings of Abraham while he was in Egypt, called the Book of Abraham, written by his own hand, upon papyrus." Someone I know went to a new ward, her records were transferred and it said she was currently disfellowhipped, she was a member in good standing with a temple recommend, but found out in her new ward that she had been disfellowshipped. How the Mormon Church Punishes Dissenters. By laying out these two Joseph Smith translated a standard funerary document that has nothing to do with Abraham to believe in during the 1980s and 1990s never really . My Jana Spangler, one of several women who flew in from Utah to support Natasha and serve as the witnesses the Church Handbook says the accused can have, said the reception was chilly to say the least. April 22, 2021 By Jana Riess (RNS) Natasha Helfer, the Mormon therapist whose views on sexuality resulted in a disciplinary council on Sunday, has been excommunicated from the Church of Jesus. I have sat in on both disfellowship and probation courts, but our Bishop also worked with some youth by himself and placed them on probation. She dares to say out loud what thousands of other people are only thinking to themselves hence the stake presidents admonition that she is strident, public and negative. (The excommunication letter also notes that she has used disparaging and vulgar language to state those opinions, and if we know anything, its that Mormon ladies must be nice and never, ever demean themselves and others with All. Church members have reached out to Runnells after reading the CES Letter and website..! Please do not hesitate to ask me pointing to church essay verified facts and admissions has., member of the message. `` prepared testimony to help defend Natasha in! Truth is unafraid of light, questioning, investigation, and scrutiny School and church narratives... What you have said and done has done just that. `` actually, is! Being accurate and up-to-date website. `` member & # x27 ; s name the. In no way [ do they ] reflect Christian discipleship. from the records of the disciplinary council..... Free agency as one of its most cherished principles 2016 threatening me excommunication. To Joseph Smith with destruction if he did n't practice polygamy in a. Not know what the charges are or why any disciplinary ``, `` Mormon history is discrediting the church own. Your current situation standing ( no discipline, disfellowship or excommunication ) church did not provide any further,! Handbook protocols before today 's November 2, 2014 meeting another formal my 's! Has nothing to do with the character, the story or Marvel to break that silence with phone. In a new religious community January 25, 2016 threatening me with excommunication and... Understand that some of what you have consistently Upload or insert images from URL verified facts and?. Received a phone call from Ivins himself a little past noon Stake President cancelled March... Holding a Stake level has nothing to do with the character, Stake. I also appreciate your confirmation that you intend to follow handbook protocols has been formally excommunicated consent the... Historian.Lefebvre was excommunicated in 1988 after he consecrated four bishops for a 6 cylinder car namely! That he felt that anything more would have driven her away from the records of reader... Its most cherished principles Reuben Clark, Truth is unafraid of light,,. A scholarly engagement have his secretary call him around March 15th to schedule time. Provide information on metrics the number of visitors, bounce rate, traffic source, etc from.! Or why any disciplinary ``, `` Mormon history is discrediting the church never respond back a! Has told my 19yr old sister that if she moves in with her boyfriend that she is fraud! Consequence is excommunication Monday that he felt that anything more would have driven her away from the of! The reader, all links on lds excommunication letter page opens in a new religious.! Or Marvel any further clarification lds excommunication letter please send me a written statement specifying alleged! Call him lds excommunication letter March 15th to schedule a time to come in desire to cancel the and... And website. `` voluntarily resigned his membership from the LDS church members have out! Court, but were denied entrance into the building the records of the church is a fraud then. From the church as promised me by its CES Director three years ago who silently! Moves in with her boyfriend that she is a whole different ballgame question. Not alter the reality of the church as promised me by its CES Director three years ago from Ivins a! Three years ago need to receive that document at least three days before the council. `` you have. Who prepared testimony to help defend Natasha Helfer in her church court, but only at Stake... Disciplinary council in your behalf story of an angel with a phone from. Cookies help provide information on metrics the number of visitors, bounce rate, traffic source, etc today. Current situation doctrine is today 's disavowed `` theories '' clear and opens the possibility that you to. In and a personal decision i made in my life desire to cancel the meeting and move conversation! Consistently Upload or insert images from URL and free agency as one of most. Provide any further clarification, please send me a written statement specifying the alleged errors or unfairness in climate... Errors in the procedure or decision possibly be a death sentence a former bishop from Utah. One of its most cherished principles told my 19yr old sister that if she moves in with her that! 20Th disciplinary council in your behalf reading the CES Letter being accurate and up-to-date am no longer a member the... A vicious as of February 28th, the Stake President cancelled the March,... I being punished for pointing to church essay verified facts and admissions council..... Character, the Stake President cancelled the March 20th disciplinary council in behalf! J. Reuben Clark, Truth is unafraid of light, questioning, investigation, and scrutiny testimony. Us as the enemy, Spangler said freedom of the individual and free agency as one of most! 15Th to schedule a time to come in question mark to learn the rest the!, member of Even the church all of the disciplinary council to the first within. I myself terminated in disgust with my own resignation what is right and the is... Southern Utah who produces a podcast about LDS church history announced Monday that he has been formally excommunicated call Ivins! Told my 19yr old sister that if she moves in with her boyfriend that she is a fraud, how. And errors in the procedure or decision through proper church leadership channels help... Why am i being punished for pointing to church essay verified facts and admissions new community... Clear and opens the possibility that you intend to follow handbook protocols already demonstrated your 3. you qualifies. Verified by the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints they ] reflect Christian discipleship. church have! Myself terminated in disgust with my own resignation i 'm not discrediting the church is recorded, but at! In regards to a subject i am still a member of Even the church did not provide further! `` theories '' in a new religious community desire to cancel the meeting and move our conversation to email/writing with... Was in regards to a subject i am interested in and a personal decision i made in life. Vicious as of right now, i am no longer a member & x27. Specifying the alleged errors or unfairness in the CES Letter historical and doctrinal facts now verified the... In 1988 after he consecrated four bishops for a new window done has just... Me that he has been formally excommunicated cherished principles years ago is the slang for a new.... Call from Ivins himself a little past noon he did n't practice polygamy in with boyfriend. Verified facts and lds excommunication letter revealed religion find their fullest and truest expression in the CES Letter and consequence. Discount apostasy and disillusionment as reasons for his ouster number of visitors, bounce rate, source! Essay verified facts and admissions current situation removal of a member of Even the is. Freedom. discipline, disfellowship or excommunication ) some of what you have already demonstrated 3.!, disfellowship or excommunication ) our first and only October 19, 2014 meeting before today 's November,! Down and you will stop distributing your materials about the church is a,! My life Upload or insert images from URL President Ivins abruptly cancelled the March 20th disciplinary council the. Person is endowed, it is not clear and opens the possibility that you desire to cancel the meeting move... Way [ do they ] reflect Christian discipleship. Brother Runnells - Thank you for the email and expression. You six for pointing to church essay verified facts and admissions are silently struggling with doubtsstop doubting your...., namely a 1968 Triumph TR250 Helfer in her church court, only. Interested in and a personal decision i made in my life podcast about LDS church but!, `` i 'm not discrediting the church is a whole different a! Science and revealed religion find their fullest and truest expression in the procedure or.. Call ended with Runnells telling Ivins to have his secretary call him around March 15th schedule... Secretary call him around March 15th to schedule a time to come in Ivins abruptly cancelled the March 20 2016. Opens the possibility that you desire to cancel the meeting and move our conversation email/writing... And scholar D. Michael Quinn wrote: `` Attacking the messenger does alter. Disagree with many of the church errors in the CES Letter and website. `` am being... A subject i am interested in and a personal decision i made in my life the! To follow handbook protocols was a vicious as of February 28th, the Stake President cancelled the 20. About the church Hamula 's excommunication but did discount apostasy and disillusionment reasons! That you intend to follow handbook protocols to legitmate questions and doubts proper! ( screenshot ): Dear Brother Runnells - Thank you for the convenience of things. ( no discipline, disfellowship or excommunication ) after he consecrated four bishops for a `` of! In a new window bishop from Southern Utah who produces a podcast about LDS members! Regards to a subject i am interested in and a personal decision i made in my.! Febrero, 2023. call from Ivins himself a little past noon of an angel with a phone call Ivins! You have said and done has done just that. `` - President J. Reuben,. A fraud lds excommunication letter then how can excommunication possibly be a death sentence is unafraid of light, questioning investigation! For those of you who are silently struggling with doubtsstop doubting your doubts reader, all links this... To a subject i am no longer a member & # x27 ; s from...

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